If you live in the modern world, chances are you probably know someone who is depressed. It’s an epidemic of sorts that seems to have sky rocketed over the past few decades. To date, pharmaceutical companies have been controlling the entire conversation, convincing people that they are powerless and NEED their drugs to feel better.
We’ve all seen the creepy commercials that show a sad and exhausted person popping a shiny pill and then walking happily out into a sunlit meadow – while a voice drones on in the background listing every terrifying side-effect of this new wonder drug they’re pushing. So many good people accept this brainwashing sitting down, without taking their eyes off the TV, or even better, taking action.
But you and I are awake.
Today I want to share a special interview with a daring doctor who is risking it all to tell the other side of the story. In the video below, I’m joined by Dr. Kelly Brogan, a NYC-based psychiatrist who is redefining the way we look not only at depression, but the way we see life, and our relationship to all the things we experience throughout it.
During our chat, we dive deep into Kelly’s breakthrough work and her bestselling book “A Mind Of Your Own”, and guess what? It all comes down to remembering our sense of TRIBE and ushering in the forgotten wisdom of the ancients.
She has become a highly controversial figure in the medical world, because some of her natural approaches are at odds with conventional psychiatry. But as a devoted mother of two, as well as a highly accredited healer, we knew she was someone well worth chatting with.
It takes a lot of courage to take a stand for what you feel is right, especially when you’re challenging an entire establishment. Kelly speaks honestly and from the heart about the very sensitive topic of depression – and more importantly she shares valuable information about the best ways to move forward.
The most important 6 words that Kelly shared with us are: Depression Is A Symptom, Not A Disease
Watch the video below for a quick dose of wisdom from Dr. Kelly Brogan
(We have included a transcript of this video below – if you prefer to read.)
To check out Kelly’s bestselling new book A Mind Of Your Own, click HERE
To watch our full interview with Kelly, click HERE.
For a transcript of this clip, continue reading below:
NP: So why depression? A Mind of Your Own is focused primarily on depression, although there are a lot of little offshoots that make you realize that everything might be linked to the same cause, but why depression specifically?
KB: So what you’re saying is very true because the illusion of these different diseases being different diseases is one that I like to myth bust upfront. Is depression really different from any other physical illness in that it’s just a message that there is a source of imbalance to be examined? Depression I think I wanted to reach the most people I possibly could with my “credentials” and the truth is that eleven percent of Americans are taking psychotropic drugs, one in four women of reproductive age are, depression is the leading cause in the world of disability according to the World Health Organization.
I couldn’t pick a heavier hitter and it also happens to be one that touches the very core of major questions we have to begin asking about our orientation towards our bodies and our real lack of acknowledgement that there’s anything beyond the body in all of conventional medicine; that there is such a thing as a soul or spirit. Despite the fact that psychiatrists actually means doctor of the soul, it couldn’t be more divorced in a really Cartesian way from any acknowledgement that there is any role for experience. Everything is management and functionality and punching the clock and staying productive. It happens to be a subject that really lends itself to looking at these bigger issues, which I think do manifest in other physical illness as well.
NP: One of the spookiest things that I’ve ever encountered was two very close friends of mine, you might even call them very close family members, got divorced and when they got divorced the first thing that there psychologist did was refer them to a psychiatrist to prescribe them some kind of an anti-depressant. These are very smart people and they both did it. They both took it because I think that there is sort of this, we just do what our doctors tell us to do. I mean it’s just the way that we were raised, if the doctor tells you to do something, then you give it a shot. Unless you experience a transformative illness of your own where you have to find other ways, you don’t really ever come to that conclusion, you just do what your doctor tells you to do.
These people both took anti-depressants and started fading away. They weren’t crying or curling up in a fetal position but they were also not themselves. They were gone. They were basically just gone for a couple of months until I and my sister started both being like hey, what the hell is going on? Like are you kidding me? You’re really doing this to yourself right now? This wasn’t even a chronic condition, this was nothing – this was just a life circumstance that they were prescribed medicine for.
KB: Yes it’s amazing. I love that example because it really illustrates what we’re dealing with here. There’s recent data just out that echo’s previous data that suggests basically most prescriptions for anti-depressants are written by non-specialists and mostly by family practice doctors and GP’s, internists and that more than half of the prescriptions are written not for depression, for a dog dying, divorce, for circumstantial experiences.
Listen, doctors, for the most part, I have to believe are not bad people. These are the tools that we were given to ease struggle and suffering. We want to fix it. That’s part of the problem, the whole mentality of conventional medicine is fix it, fix it, fix it. So a divorce is challenging, for many people it’s like a birth canal to a new you, to your next chapter and if everything is co-conspiring around you to essentially say – don’t go there, that can hurt or don’t go there like that could actually interfere with work or don’t go there you have shit to do, you don’t have time for that – then when somebody offers you a hand in the form of a prescription, how could you not take it. Why would you not take it?
Part of my mission has really been to focus on some of the almost sensational sounding concerns that I developed after a deep dive into the literature, which included the fact that taking an anti-depressant prescription can actually change the course of your life and the lives of other people within days of your first dose. I got an email the other day from a woman who wants to make her presence known to me and she said my husband never suffered from depression in his entire life. He’s not a psychiatric patient. He was struggling with circumstantial insomnia and his internist prescribed him an SSRI anti-depressant and five weeks later he was found dead hanging in his garage. So she’s pretty upset about this and to her it’s pretty clear the causative relationship between that medication and her husband’s death.
Guess what, people shoot up schools, they take down airplanes, they kill their babies and their children, they murder their spouses, they behave in heinous ways that human beings would never ever consider engaging if not for being under the influence of such an altering chemical that we’ve barely characterized what it does.
So if it were the magic pill we are told it is, and I was at my training, that’s safe and effective and a quick fix, of course why would you not take it. The problem is we are representing it in a way that is wholly inconsistent with what the medical literature is telling us are its intended risks and then we’re not evening grappling with the bigger question of, is there a role for sitting in your experience, is there a role for witnessing your experience, is there actually a purpose and a meaning, personal to you, for the types of suffering that you’re exposed to. We can’t have that conversation other than places like this. It’s a complex issue and I appreciate your highlighting that element of it.
43 Responses
It’s somewhat difficult to understand what someone is trying to communicate when the distracting phrase “you know” and “like” is repeated over and over again. No, I don’t know, please tell me.
I really enjoyed your conversation. I agree with everything you said. I worked as a Licensed Clinical Psychologist for 27 years at Danville State Hospital, Private practice, etc. I, myself, have had numerous bouts of depression. I was unsuccessful in using cog-beh therapy on myself. As you know, antidepressants usually don’t work very well. Before going clinical, I was a hard core scientist doing research on rat brains, sexual differentiation, sexual behavior, hormones, etc. at Villanova, TCU, and Tulane. Anyway, I believed only in science. Now I have evolved to believe in Pantheism, the interconnectedness of everything, and recently Astrology, kabbalah, etc.
Best Regards,
Herb
So refreshing to hear this perspective. When I faced a serious illness in 2013, only one person in my life asked me, “So, why do you think you have cancer?” Which was a really key question for me to address my situation. The emotional and spiritual portions of the show are where the greatest breakthroughs and healing exist. I liked how Dr. Brogan asked about what purpose, what meaning there might be in your suffering. YES! Right question. DING DING DING! Our society values productivity over life quality and meaning, it is nice to hear that challenged. Thank you!
There’s not enough support for grieving in our culture. Great book – The Kin Of Ata. Our culture needs to realize the importance of creating and nurturing a time out system. I get bi-monthly massage and do quiet yoga before sleep at night.
I am so grateful to know there are medical professionals like this willing to take a different approach to healthcare and then have the courage to stand up to the establishment and speak out for change. I know depression well. I have experienced its effects in my own life at different times but I have also seen what it can do to others. In fact, the timing of this email could not have been planned any better. Three nights ago my friend hung herself. This never had to happen, but it did. Being this close to it makes it surreal somehow. I keep waiting for the dream to end and wake up to find her okay. But it’s not a dream and I know this, and I accept it. From the outside looking in I watched this all go down. I watched her take a pill for one thing only to need to readjust the dosage and begin something new to treat what the first medication caused. Then I watched her stop taking them altogether and develop an even deeper and more obscure level of psychosis. The bullshit aspect of it all was the fact that 90% of what she was being medicated for wasn’t even real. I would listen to her talk and observe her behavior and like you, I’m baffled by the fact that these professionals are not only prescribing this stuff, they aren’t even paying attention to the underlying cause of her mental illness. I’m not going to take up a bunch of your time with this. Just saying thanks for addressing real issues. In fact, this morning I was thinking about The Sacred Science documentary, which I’ve watched about ten times now. What really stood out to me was that they all may have been suffering from various physical symptoms, but where they needed healing the most was much deeper than the physical body. Some realized this early on, some not til later. Some realized it and ran like hell from it. I’ve done my own bit of running in the past so I completely understand. It was only when I stopped running, turned around and faced myself that I found valid healing. So I totally agree with her when she said, “…is there a role for sitting in your experience, is there a role for witnessing your experience, is there actually a purpose and a meaning, personal to you, for the types of suffering that you’re exposed to.” My experience has proven that YES, there is. You have my support in this. If I can ever be of service to you, you have my email. I also sent you a friend request on Facebook. Keep doing what you do brother. It’s a path with heart. Love and light to you, your family and everyone at the Sacred Science team. Namaste.
I am relieved that a sight like yours is addressing the complexities of depression. the diagnoses of mood and energy disorders are everywhere. angry people, silly, distracted, unable to cope, check out in social settings. I have felt that if people feelings and emotions were validated and tackled head on with support instead of ridicule and humiliation from work, family, friends, doctors, social workers etc…we would feel a lot better about ourselves. so it is what it is. medications are handed out like a pack of smarties, but not so smart after all. I have heard a lot of family members taking there own lives. medications and them trying to live up to others standards. not feeling loved and cared for. or worse told they are living a wasted life. omg
do what you love…do what makes you happy and you will be happy beyond belief. mindfulness, cheers
Fantastic interview! I’ll be sharing this everywhere I can. Nick and Kelly, you are both the kind of warriors this world needs right now. Thank you!
I was looking for more discussion on ‘depression as a symptom’ and recommendations outside of not taking anti-depressants (which I whole heartedly agree). Is there more to this interview I can tap into with regards to those lines?
I agree with her. Sitting with your pain can have benefits in time. Living in the well permanently need not happen if you receive proper support. My tools of choice are YL essential oils, flower essences and a couple of biofeedback tools for unjamming emotions. I’m glad she is bringing this idea forward and thank you for putting this together
This is a very interesting topic, and it is far more complex than we often would like to believe. There are many cases where ordinary sadness, which is situational, is labeled “depression” and treated with medication, which it should not be. This is when depression is a symptom of a need to “sit with” the feelings and attempt to understand what they are asking from us – sometimes with the assistance of a professional. In such cases, we may need to work through grief or legitimate sorrow or bad conditioning. We may have to give ourselves time to heal, or question some beliefs that no longer serve us, or find the courage to change a situation that needs to be changed.
At other times, though, the depression is real and ongoing, and it requires the help of medication. We tend to think that depression (and other mental/emotional conditions) is “all in our heads” and we can control it with the right attitude or the right kind of self-talk. But I have found that often, this is not the case, because the depression overrides our reason. While we can focus on the negative effects of medication, I have seen cases where the right medication, in the right dose, has changed the course of a person’s life for the better. I saw a friend of mine go from being a bitter, hurtful person who did a lot of damage to her relationships to being a more flexible, trusting and loving person…almost overnight. She became more present for her co-workers and her subordinates, and things went much better for her. She successfully re-established contact with estranged children and family. She attracted lasting love into her life and married someone who was a good match for her, where before she had sabotaged relationships and hurt people. I can tell you without a reasonable doubt that this would not have happened had it not been for the antidepressant. This, and a number of other situations I personally observed, shows me that brain chemistry is a very real thing, and that additional serotonin or dopamine can alter the way a person sees the world, and this can give the person back his/her power. You have to be very careful, as a drug that works for one person may be very bad for another. Yet once the brain chemistry is under control, the person can be in a much better place from which to act on his or her circumstances.
As someone who has ADD – another condition that is often debated – I can personally vouch for the difference a low dose of medication has made for me, and for others I know. I managed to live much of my life telling myself that certain things were all my fault: I was lazy, I was disorganized, I was…yada, yada. I survived, I compensated, I did reasonably well. But having been diagnosed in my fifties, I saw the difference that could be made with a combination of talk therapy (with a professional who specialized in ADD) and Ritalin, both of which made a huge difference. I often wonder what I could have done in my life had I gotten this help much earlier. Yes, the medication is over-prescribed, but for those who legitimately struggle with the limitations ADD causes, a medication that is judiciously administered can save your life in more than a physical sense.
So I don’t think we do the discussion justice without acknowledging that there is no “one-size-fits-all” answer. If we could emphasize (and encourage psychiatrists and their clients to emphasize) first checking in, to see if the depression has a situational cause and is asking something of us, that would certainly be of primary importance. But we must also be willing to consider a medication – even temporarily – it that is what is called for. If both options are on the table, we will have a better base from which to operate. I do agree that we need to challenge the prevailing “medical” model for dealing with everything. But we must also be careful not to vilify or rule it out. A better balance needs to be created, and that is the challenge we face now.
I had depression and made San Pedro smoothies and it fixed my life.
I had to google that!!! educational…
Thank you for sharing this insightful conversation. So many conventional pathways of medicine are aimed at invasive symptomatic treatment with the intent of numbing and fixing to supress the experience of pain, and thus the organic unfoldment of our experience in a way where we are deeply centered and present to our own personal process, and the spiritual growth embodied through these experiences. This control is borne of fear, and this control, emotional suppression, and chemical suppression of neurological pathways via modified and synthetic substances, are all gathered at the root of dis-ease, and dis-connect from the wisdom held within our experience, our intuition, and our soul. With respect to emergency cases with the mindful integration of pharmaceutical support within a treatment plan that addresses the multidimensional layers of a person and their unique experience. The field of holistic counseling holds a beautiful presence to somatic psychotherapy, where doorways to forms of healing such as Shamanic Journeywork and the Hakomi Method are held with deep presence as well as the support of and scientific research. I am deeply grateful for both of your contributions to medicine and healing, and hold a space of support for all of your sacred scientific contributions.
Thank you for being a medical voice in the wilderness Kelly. I love the title of your book and very much appreciate what you have taken on. It is so needed.
I wish you everything you need to get this understanding out to everyone.
Again Thank you
Hello, How do I contact Kelly?
I have worked as a Registered Nurse (no longer practicing) and was recently admitted to a Mental Health Hospital, for many reasons, however, I also believe that I was guided there. I had the knowledge and the strength to refuse the medication that they would have given to me.
I would love to get in contact with Kelly to talk about my experience of ‘Escaping the Lions Den’
Thankyou
Hi Nick, I was very pleased to hear Dr Kelly Brogan’s video. Many years ago I went through episodes of depression and panic and came through with a psychiatrist who helped me to go through the life passages which had been the causes (after I had found the medicines made me feel worse!) I wrote the story of this in an autobiography called ‘On Earth As It Is In Heaven’ by Kristin Schneider, which is on Amazon Kindle. I am now able to help others, although my passion is to help the souls of soldiers from WW1, who die in agony. Love in the presence of counselling techniques works much faster in disembodied souls, and is bringing these damaged men into a productive life in the worlds after death. For these men love is the only medicine available. Now published as ‘Unveiling No Man’s Land’ soon to be on Kindle.
The tentacles of big pharma are everywhere…i go to Science of Mind-and…even there (why did i expect more? ) if one talks too much about their angst over….divorce, loved ones death, etc., if one is not ‘progressing as expected’-you know what the advice is….but i have been on many pills-and they do not really ‘help you cope’ Plus many have side effects….damaged SA node (heart), thyroid failure…which now means-guess what? More pills, Dr. visits, tests, etc. So, I am helping the system….ka-ching-ka-ching. Good thing for medicare, huh?
Not all depression is alike. It seems that we are speaking of very different things: circumstantial/reactive depression and low mood depression are at one end of the spectrum. We all have experiences that can be associated with these types of depression: from divorce, loss of a loved one to death, loss of home, job, etc. And, yes, many doctors prescribe medication without the proper training or knowledge. Many over-prescribe. Needless to say, these are dangerous practices.
But there are real illnesses – major clinical depression (unipolar) and manic depression (bipolar) among them. I have been diagnosed with bipolar I. I have suffered 4 major episodes in 20 years. They were devastating. Without proper medication, I would probably be living on the streets – as many of the mentally ill are. I know the illness intimately.
If you are interested, I have written a book called: THE FORMULA: Seven Steps for Healing from Depression and Manic Depression. It is a holistic, practical guide for healing and well-being. The book encompasses the spiritual aspect of the illness and its effect on consciousness.
I think we do a grave disservice by bundling all depression into a single category, with superior attitudes toward treatment. Natural treatments, diet, supplements, etc. do work for some. Shamanic practices work in some cultures. But serious depression needs medical intervention. Depression is at epidemic proportions world-wide, according to the World Health Organization, and growing. It is a serious condition that can and must be treated. The result of untreated or mis-treated depression is often death by suicide. We can do better than this.
Hi Nick,
I am largely in accord with you on the subject of antidepressant medications and myself refused to fill a Rx, resorting instead to herbals. However, I have to say that I do know of 2 people who clearly affirm that they have great benefit from their pharmaceutical meds. Perhaps there are legitimate uses for some of these drugs for the right people and the right Rx. Both of the people I refer to are dynamically involved in life – as long as they take their meds.
I personally am in refusal to support Big Pharma, however I am willing to acknowledge a bias and accept that some Rx experiences are positive.
Absolutely! Be in your experience–suffer and learn from it.
I struggled with Major Depressive Disorder since childhood. A couple of months ago I stopped taking all the medication I had become dependant on, too many to name, and got on a flight to Iquitos, Peru. I knew the withdrawal symptoms would be hell to deal with, but I also knew I couldn’t continue just surviving through life. I have too much to live for. 4 amazing adult children and grandchildren, a mother who suffered because of my “illness” & a lot of wonderful friends. I decided I really wanted to live! No more suicidal thoughts or attempts. By the time I got to Iquitos, I was in critical condition. But I made it to the Amazon jungle retreat and spent 10 days there doing 4 Ayahuasca ceremonies. It was intense! I struggled as never before. The crying was non-stop. But I did it. I’m back home now and feeling so much better. There’s so much I want to say, but I just want to let all of you know that what I’ve learned from my life’s experience and especially the Ayahuasca, is that we really do have the power to heal ourselves. I’m still in withdrawal mode, after all,I was on medication for almost 30 years, but I’m healing, on my own. I’m crying a lot less & feel a sense of purpose. Looking forward to being around for my family a bit longer & feeling a sense of pride and accomplishment. Look for alternative healing. And never give up on yourself. Because life is precious.
Wow! Awesome interview!! We live is a society of instant gratification where we put a bandaid on everything!! No one wants to go through a rough patch or feel crappy for a spell!! We all just want everything ” fixed” NOW! We could have sooo many less people addicted to drugs and alcohol if we just learned how to get through these rough patches through healthy living, and we could be proud of ourselves for doing so. Thank you both, keep up the awesome work!!!!!
This is true! People need to know the grave risks of NOT going thru their own crisis. It is like child birth & being born again to go thru it, but with emotional & spiritual support from family or friends, and natural healing you get through it, grow and thrive.
I was given a pill, handed to me by a doctor, from the sample bottle, who said you WILL be depressed. You will feel better in 20 min. He was right. I felt like my old self. The next morning when I woke up I was 100 times worse than when I went to him. For the next 3 days all I could think of was suicide and how to to do it so my dying father would not find me. Thankfully I had friends that drove 3 hours to get me & drove 3 hrs back to their home (all the while I was having heebee geebees in the back seat). They watched me & next morning, they took me to get acupuncture. It reconnected me somehow & I was back to my real self.
That horrible, unbearable feeling was gone. They give these pills to children. Its criminal.
Thank you for speaking out. This is crucial information.
This is true! People need to know the grave risks of NOT going thru their own crisis. It is like child birth & being born again to go thru it, but with emotional & spiritual support from family or friends, and natural healing you get through it, grow and thrive.
I was given a pill. Handed to me by a doctor, from the sample bottle. He said “you WILL be depressed”. You will feel better in 20 min. He was right. I felt like my old self. The next morning when I woke up I was 100 times worse than when I went to him. For the next 3 days all I could think of was suicide and how to to do it so my dying father would not find me. Thankfully, I had friends that drove 3 hours to get me & drove 3 hrs back to their home (all the while I was having heebee geebees in the back seat). They watched me & next morning, they took me to get acupuncture. It reconnected me somehow & I was back to my real self.
That horrible, unbearable feeling was gone. They give these pills to children. Its criminal.
Thank you for speaking out. This is crucial information.
I like this . Depression is hudge among all age groups. I had been depressed for three and half years at 55 it started. I am just pulling up out of it. menopause and thyroid imbalances hit me ,a healer ,health nut, hard.As a dedicated herbalist,massage therapist and normaly healthy person it was such a unique and different experience to go thru. Yes, I became very depressed even with meditations, breathing, good food, exercise. I put on 25 lbs. seemingly overnite that I could not shake. Even my breast grew three entire sizes! I was sweating so profusely i had to quit my vocation massage work, for three entire years of my life. My partner cheated on me, cause I just could hardly push myself out bed and wieght gain. I was not my happy exhorberant self any longer. Finally i went to a hormone replacement center. I did not want to but I was feeling suicidal and too sad. After years of helping others i was a wreck. As I am just begining to feel more centered grounded and only on one pill , a natural thyroid supplement , after 18 months of hormones, I can tell you getting older,losing the old period, and all those extra hormones , this is a monumental change in every humans life . It is an incredible chapter in my life. It is normal to age,change, slow down abit. Our society just has alot of problems with old age, death in general. It also showed me how screwed up people are about ageing. Yes, I forgave my partner and asked him to embrace this natural ageing process, he too is on thyroid medicines.Time will tell if we stay together but I can tell you folks who are going thru change of life you can pull yourself together and recreate an even better, more compassionate, intelligent self from the ashes. Thank you, this is just my story on a form of depression love you ,terry
hi . IN the NETHERLANDS II IS THESAME STORY
Hello. In the Netherlands it is the same story . 20000 people dy because of adverse reactions of medication, 350000 people addicted to benzodiazepines, People committing suicide because of SSRI’s or mothers killing theire children , because of Antidipressant medcation . Antipsychotics that shorten lves by 30 years , Causing Ataxia. It is disgusting
I was told by a wise man recently that Lithium Orotate will correct depression, anxiety and PTSD. Western med prescribe other forms of lithium but these other forms have side effects, some pretty nasty, whereas in the Orotate form it does not have side effects. It may also cure the agonising pain of shingles, herpes zoster….imagine that, nerve ending pain being connected to depression by a cure, who’d of thought! So many times I learn that true medicine is found in the so called alternative fields.
I am very grateful that you are bringing this topic to the surface. I have been dealing with depression after experiencing many losses and health problems over the last 7 years. It has been tough to pick myself up and dust myself off yet again… Ironically, I just started reading Marianne Williamson’s most recent book, ‘Tears to Triumph’ yesterday. It talks about the very topic you are discussing. Your short video and this book have given me a grander understanding that my misery has a larger spiritual message, and it is OK to just BE with the feelings in order to glean the message. While friends and family gently suggest that maybe I should “take something” to ease the pain, I am convinced that NOT feeling the feelings will keep me in a vicious cycle of despair, exhaustion and powerlessness. Thank you so much for bringing this topic to the light!!
I am familiar with Dr. Brogan’s work and what she and you are saying is so powerful and so true. I applaud you both for getting this vital information out there to a public that needs to hear this truth. When I was still just a teen, I was prescribed anti-depressants and was told I would have to take them for the rest of my life as I had a “chemical imbalance.” None of it rang true for me and I knew that it would be harmful to buy into such thinking. And so I began digging deep and doing my own research and discovered that my depression was merely a symptom of various issues that needed to be addressed and healed on all levels: physical, spiritual, mental and emotional. As Will (another commenter) has noted, we all tend to want to run from the “deep” stuff (and we all do) but it’s what most needs to be faced and embraced. I am grateful that I had that knowing about the misleading and dangerous mindset in our healthcare system of a “pill for every ill” conveyed many times by well-meaning by doctors who have not been properly educated about the holistic nature of true healing. Such a false mindset (which Dr. Brogan is so courageously trying to change!) can cause great harm, as evidenced by the collateral damage that she and Will have mentioned (among many other examples). Thank you for your excellent work and for getting this life-changing information out there!
Yea, I got the “Shaman Sickness”. I am 61 yr old male and I have been living with “Schitzoaffective” since a child. Never got help until later years. The 50’s and 60’s was a tough time for a “odd child” raised in fundamental Christianity. I have tried to blend in to society and I have Lost everything and experienced homelessness even (sitting in raw Nature for me was really peaceful for awhile). Can’t keep a regular job now, paranoid sometimes and have a distrust for religion of any kind cause it is so left brain. Got’s no spirits. I am lucky cause I have a great partner and my family finally came around and started to accept somethings. I wanted to comment because of one item mentioned is pretty accurate as was mentioned in the beginning. Yes, to sit with ones circumstances (depression) in silence as was sorta stated is good. To be a silent witness and observer until the episode passes has been a great method that has saved my life many times as evil “spirits” have tortured me. Now I sorta counsel “them” when they show up. Ha Ha. I didn’t listen to all the YouTube (attention span sucks), but Mental Illness has been around a long time and Ole Shaman’s knew how to help folk take advantage of their circumstances and turn it around for something good. Today’s culture sucks at this. The only thing that modern folks who have suffered with Mental Illness for awhile sometimes stumble into means to help themselves in their conditions. Now I got to a point that I started to not trust the Doctor/Psych/Therapist. They never heard voices or seen anything. What gives them any authority? It almost gets to the point you try to reverse roles instructing them (Doctors). It is like this with me, that if they aren’t a Shaman (someone who knows and has a relationship with the spirit world) you do not trust them and you hold back. I am happy that I had fallen into my lap some books Scientists that have studied ole shaman cultures. They help me and empower me when I get really dark. I am not into a bunch of this now New Age bs cause it is Materialistic Capitalism dressed in “Spiritual Drag” They really believe they can “will” themselves to fit their ideals, but that is another subject and I am getting off focus. It was a good tape but just surface stuff. Thanks for reading my comment.
AMAZING! Dr. Brogan needs to do a TED talk! And a big THANK YOU to Nick Polizzi for sharing this interview. So much to think about but even more to act upon. Thank you for being a light Dr. Brogan
Hi thank you for the interesting article . Your view is a very valid one however there are cases where medication is needed to help someone get to a non dangerous place , a non suicidal one for example . I have suffered with depression most of my life, bipolar . I have gone down the medication route and been helped by the meds and have also learned the trouble they can get you into . in my case I put on a huge amount of weight and became a lethargic shell of my former self getting of the meds was also a long and difficult journey in my case I replaced them with drink ,, this allowed me to stop using however in time i realised I had just replaced one drug for another . I quit drinking and soon after became depressed again this time though I battled through and slowly starred to feel ok again and remain drug free . each case is different sometimes you have to experience a hard winter to really appreciate the summer . The one good thing depression does for you is it gives you great empathy. wherever you are whoever you are may your summers be long and your winters short .
I was wondering a bout environmental therapy and if you could go more in depth about the different environments and how they condition us let alone heal us?
I am so happy to read this. If I may share a personal experience. Between 1990 and 1995 I experienced huge loss of both parents and two babies. I was devastated when my second baby died and my then partner insisted that I go to the doctor for anti-depressants after I had spent a day totally numb and unable to move. Eventually I broke down into uncontrollable sobbing and thankfully it provided me with the release to think more clearly. I got the pills, put them in the back of the drawer of my desk and never took them, but didn’t tell anyone. I wasn’t depressed, I was suffering from compound grief, and the people closest to me didn’t have the knowledge to handle it. So I think that as well as understanding ourselves and being informed about the choices that are available to us, there has to be an end to others sticking a convenient label on our experiences as if this represents a total understanding of us when in fact it blinds them to anything fresh and new that would help all concerned to engage with life’s inevitable challenges.
I used anxiety and depression medicines even though I know it adversely affects my being. I am a witness that anxiety and depression medicine, for me, is against the spiritual essence. Recently, I used Lyrica for 28 days. Lyrica caused severe adverse effect such that I stop using it, I needed support from my sister for a day, and sent the 10 year old to his dad’s house for two days. I will not take any type of anxiety or depression medicine again and am wary of taking any pharmaceutical medicines. Thank you for speaking about this matter, it is appreciated.
Medication is such a quick fix and perfect for this extremely yang world in which we live. I really like what Dr. Brogan said – is there a place for this difficult experience in your life? When we take the time to be with what is, in other words, spending yin time, we get a chance to learn something about ourselves and to move through chaos to a new level. No yin time means no evolution.
Although the interview makes a good point about prescription drugs, it says nothing about depression as a symptom (of what?) and alternative treatments. I guess I’ll have to buy the book to learn more (and I would if I get presented with more convincing info regarding the topic).
Thank you for continuing to share such truthful, valid, easily understood but relevant messages for today’s times. In listening and then reading the comments it brought to mind a saying I would like to share when I stopped, sat and faced a few major life events occurring simultaneously and through that wonderful inner gut feeling refused unnecessary medication only to numb me down. It was….
“The tragedy in life is not death, it is what dies within us while we live”.
I now from my experiences and pain felt and organically processed can relate to another on a far deeper level of understanding and offer to listen and support if asked of which I would not have been able to do if having not been there myself. Thank you Nick for bringing Kelly to us and the work you both do x
Actually in psychiatry, we are NOT taught that medication or therapy is a quick fix. It takes weeks or longer to stabilize someone with mental illness.
Depression is a symptom that you are suffering from Capitalism…
Brilliant stuff. I absolutely agree. My personal and professional insight into depression is that at its core it is a disconect from our essential being, a symptom of our loss of connection to life force and purpose
Hi Nick. I appreciate you sharing the work of Kelly Brogan and her take on depression and willingness to give alternatives to Antidepressants is admirable. However , their is a problem to her approach, her consultation is $4900 ( no mistakes in the zeros). I have 2 very close friends suffering from devastating depressions and in therapy for years and they cannot stop antidepressant because they don’t have the support and cannot afford her fee. For me it is a serious limitation / ethical issue to her work.
That is great information… I have been looking for something like this for quite some time as to my husband has been dealing with a few of the same issues. I agree, it is usually us women that do the most research on health related issues. I am a stylist and find that I see quite a lot of men with the loss of hair issue that you speak of.